Second Hand Violin Archives - Fiddler Dan Violins & Workshop, Brisbane

How much is my violin worth?

Violins intrinsically hold their value, however to do so they must be kept in good condition through regular servicing and replacement of some components. As a repair and often refurbish old instruments for new families I often have to manage the expectations of people looking to sell or trade in an instrument and wondering how much their violin is worth

Student violins

If you are wondering how much you student violin is worth, you can look for how much it costs to buy currently, and then look at around 50% of that if its in good condition. This is what you might be able to sell it on facebook for. While you may think it’s worth more keep in mind the buyer is buying something without warranty and facebook marketplace shoppers are generally looking for a bargain. depending on the time of year (start of the school year) it might sell quickly or take quite a while to sell at other times

If you hope to sell it to a music store (I’m always looking) keep in mind most stores buy wholesale and so what you are hoping to sell-it on facebook is likely close to their buy price for something that is brand new, albeit this doesn’t include setup costs.

Things that devalue a violins sale price include the condition of the case, the bow (how much hair is on it), how long have the strings been on the instrument (quality strings lose their timbre after about a year). Are the pegs sticking (they need to be serviced) and what is the condition of the bridge – many student violins have bent or warped bridges. When I take a trade in instrument or a secondhand instrument I find these things when replaced are close to the value of the instrument.

Grandmas violin (old violins)

A lot of people have a family violin that has been handed down and sat in a cupboard for many years. There is a notion that because it’s old it must be valuable, esp. if it bears the label Stradavarius (or other spelling variant ) and a date from the 1700, 1800’s. Many of these violins were made in factories in the date, the label often being a way to inflate its value or at best is telling the customer that this is the style of instrument it was made in.

Older instruments generally need quite a bit of restoration work to get them playable usually include peg replacement , nut replacement, new bridge, new sound post, new tail piece and of course strings. A bow is a certainty and usually a case replacement (despite the fact the old case could be beautiful it usually requires los of work…and isn’t very protective). Then there is attention to any open seams, cracks and often a neck reset is needed. oft time the cost of repair approaches the value of a new good quality student instrument.

There are telltale signs of quality instruments , but often it’s only after it’s strung up and played that you can really know. Labels by makers can give a good indication (thought there are plenty of fake labels available for the unscrupulous). The carving of the scroll gives a clue to the attention to detail by the make, the grade of the timbers used and the methods of construction are another clue as well as the condition it presents in.

Enrico Violin Review student model

Enrico’s, Enrico’s boy I see a lot of these violins. At around $300 for most of their violin range these are the entry level violin for most parents, solid reliable at a great price point and available everywhere!

Purists tend to turn up their nose at them of course but I recon they are a solid performer for someone just getting started, and streets ahead of an ALDI Blue ;). Yes the tone is a little on the tinny side (especially on the smaller instruments) , but they are well setup and reliable performers and really robust. I pair the smaller ones with a good multicore steel string (I can put better strings on of course but they add to the price and people buying these ones are very price sensitive). For a full size Enrico Thomastic alphas on the better models, or an equivalent string that is a bit cheaper. yes Enrico’s like the Enrico student extra, Enrico Custom can come with much nice tone woods even with modest flame on the back at around $500 – they don’t tend to be sold so much – I suspect its a brand problem you can’t really be a budget brand and a higher end brand at the same time.

What to look for

If you are buying one new the thing to watch is the setup, as they are supplied from the wholesaler not setup – so the bridge heights and fingerboard nut are often too high. So make sure the store you get it from has had someone do a setup! The strings at the top of the fingerboard (at the nut) should have just enough space under them to fit a business card – otherwise they are too high and will be too hard to play, down at the oher end of the finger board if you can just fit your pinky tip under the G string and can’t see daylight between the bridge feet and the violin its been setup OK! Some reviews on Product Review make note of this as well.

By the time I see an Enrico it might be 10 years old…yes they keep going forever, though the cases often need a bit of work and it often gets a bow replacement too. Its tough replacing parts because secondhand around $150 is the right price and a new bow is $50 so often there are all the margins gone for putting my time into servicing the instrument.

In any case if your here and your wanting to know if they are a good starter first instrument (especially for the clumsy)…yes go for it, save your $$$ for the next size up!

Violin bits wanted….National Recycling Week 8-14 November , 2021

Its National Recycling Week Started by Planet Ark, Australia in 1996 its about changing our take, make and dispose culture and making sure anything we have is used for as long as possible to reduce waste. Its a higher goal that just recycling, a mindset change in our approach to stuff!

So this is a shout out to anyone that has an old violin not doing anything, even if it’s in bits I’m interested. I’ll either get it going for the next family to love or use the parts to get another one up to speed.

Recently I put together a student violin that had been sat on, the front cracked open in multiple placs (and the bar bar on the inside) and the back split open as well. Whats most interesting, is that whilst I was in there I managed to clean up a lot of the work done during manufacture (it’s a mass manufactured, albeit better quality $400 student violin) and once it was all back together, with a good new sound post it sounds better than one I have that wasn’t damaged. Of course though it doesn’t quite look as pretty any more….I guess we all get we all get cracks…err wrinkles with age though right 😉 Its a few hrs of life I’ll never get back and doesn’t make sense financially, but its one less bit of forest relegated to landfill though!

I’d love to give this one away but my teacher has set his apprentice (me) the task of carving an entirely new bass bar for it, the only catch though is he says I gotta make the clamps, and the planes to do it though…….

Dan

Gliga Violin Review

Something I see from time to time are Gliga Violins, actually I’d like to see more as they always sell reasonably quickly, I suspect because of brand reputation. So here is my Gliga Violin review. Value for money and great sound people usually go with my Hidersine Violins.

There is no doubt about it there is something lovely about a European instrument, made from European timbers (and the much vaunted Carpathian mountains where Stradivari is rumoured to source his timbers…great marketing!) and Gliga violins really fit the bill in that regard. They are a solid instrument tending towards a mellow tone, so sound good (well not squeaky) too. if you hunt on discussion forums they are discussed quite a bit The Gliga range starts with a III, II, I, Vasile and then some higher models as well. Recently the Gliga Romanie has been added as well , I suspect to reach into the lower end of the market. (same violins but with a durable finish thats quicker and cheaper to apply than the trad finish)

With each step up through the Gliga models you are getting progressively finer timbers and accompanying workmanship.

Of course the founder of Gliga violins Vasile Gliga can’t possibly make them all ( a maker can only make a few a year generally) so how does he do it? As best i can determine after he found success as a maker, he began acquiring and building up violin workshops with his methods and under his supervision…genius I recon and a wonderful cottage industry is born. Gliga violins are based in Romania, this is formerly an Eastern block country, where wages are lower, at around 1/3-1/4 of those in Western Europe today according to google. Violin making is labour intensive so this is how he can make his violins for the price. Some people think they look a bit chunky on the corners and a bit mellow (some say woody).

The mellow sound can be brightened by a new bridge (See Whats in a Violin bridge? and getting more from a Gliga) or sound post, but thats a fair bit of work for the average punter. The easiest way by far is to pair it with brighter strings like Evah Pirazzi’s or Thomastic Visions ( see my Violin String Selection Guide )

You can see Gliga’s today in most music stores right across the planet…that is manufacturing on a serious scale so I don’t recon he can supervise all of them. As a result there is a fair bit of variability across the range so a Gliga III might sound better than a Gliga II and so on, its just going to depend on the instrument and what you as a buyer are looking for. In a music store its often all about the Brand, so being European and at a great price point they fit the bill well! To further keep the price down you often see the Gliga’s paired with a much cheaper bow than you might expect, this is ok if you are just a few years in, but you’ll want to step that up to get the most from the instrument. After all a bow is 1/2 the sound production and there is quite a bit to the bow. A rough guide is 1/3 the price of your violin should be spent on the bow (see bow science)

Price wise, for the sound you are paying a premium for both the brand and the European place of manufacture and they have good resale value (actually all quality violins do) ). You can get better sound for your $$$ I recon (hear my comparison here with the violins I sell), but of course they are’t made in Europe and don’t look as beautiful.

My son currently plays a Gliga I with a one piece back, I think for him its mostly about the brand, though of course it sounds nice too. I have Tonica’s on his violin which suit where he is at . At the time of writing this he’s been playing about 4 years now, so will step up the strings when he is ready to get more from his violin.

Goldilocks and the three student violins

Do you know the story of Goldilocks? It is a little known fact that she was also a violin player…no really its true 😉

What violin did she play, the curious amongst you might ask? Well all I can say is it was not too cheap, but not too expensive….it was just right. Just right for her that is.

Image credit NZ string quartet

As a beginning player, her mum couldn’t bear the thought of a cheap tinny instrument being played around the house, nor did she have the money for an expensive European instrument when she wasn’t sure if Goldilocks was going to keep learning.

On her violin were not the cheapest of strings – which can hurt the ears, but neither were they the expensive solosists strings …that would amplify every falw in her beginners technique.

Her bow was neither too soft so she could get decent tone out of the instrument, nor to capriccios as an expensive pernambucco bow would be skittering around as she was just learning how to handle a bow.…its was somewhere in the middle

The case itself also was just right…tough enough to handle the every day rigours of heading off to her friends grandma’s place for lessons. Her friend wore a red riding hood…you might know her. But also the case was not so expensive as to cost more than the violin as well.

So when you are next in the market for a violin, keep in mind your ideal Goldilocks violin. Watch out for stores that will frame their products ranging from expensive to very expensive and try to find something that will suit you. Remember a quality well cared for violin will hold its value into the future, just change your violin according to your needs as you grow.

Arioso Violin Review

One of the instruments I see a lot of are the Arioso violins, so here is a review. Its a popular instrument in Brisbane and I suspect what a lot of string teachers recommend. For $400 you get a lot of instrument (tonally and quality), of course add on spare strings and a shoulder pad and its closer to $500 though.

Mostly I see them as 3/4, as they are a step up from the entry level instrument you get your child when they are on a 1/2 size and not sure they are going to continue. Then by the time they are on a full size instrument they are ready for something quite a bit better (product placement see my new and preloved fullsize ). Having said all that they are great for a complete beginner regardless of size.

The Arioso violin (Simply for Strings instrument) is a nice looking instrument that comes in a variety of finishes from that classic Amber colour through to a darker stained antique look sold more recently. It fitted with quality ebony running gear, wittner style self adjusters and D’addario Prelude strings. These strings are a good match if you are just starting, but a bit underpowered otherwise. They are steel strings, so an upgrade of these to a synthetic core as your playing develops helps the violin keep pace with you (Thomastik Alphayu are what I refit them with usually, or perhaps Tonicas). I have seen Evah Pirazzi strings fitted to these violins, at $180 a set I think thats like Ferrari tires on a Hyundai though. Matching the strings to the instrument and player saves money and/or gets the most from the instrument and player (See my Violin String Selection Guide)

Nothing really goes wrong with these instruments, apart from misadventure at the hands of your 10yr old 😉 I see a few with some weakness around the end pin, so if you are in the market for one second hand check for a small split on the side timbers near the end pin (its not uncommon in young wood used in student instruments that is not all that seasoned) or an end pin pushed in too hard when made or dropped on. A small split here is cosmetic, but hiding behind that might be an issue with the internal end block, a tell tale sign is the angle of the end pin has been pulled up ( as there is a lot of tension from the strings pulling upwards).

A look inside an Arioso (see the inside $400 violin) shows why his might be so. To make a violin that sounds this good at this price some compromises need to be made, and usually thats where you can’t see it, there might be cleats to help the fit of the back, the end block’s been drilled out a bit quick and split, internal pieces might not quite fit together. The bass bar is carved, rather than fitted as seperate, which can be a strength and tone issue. But hey if you want all this, then you are paying for a master maker and need to spend quite a bit more.

Usually when an Arioso comes my way it needs some love, a string change, minor bridge work (or replacement), peg service, lubing the fine tuners, removing a few years of rosin and attending to any cosmetic chips and scratches. Pride and care in an instrument comes from playing one that looks good, your youngun needs something that looks nice and takes pride in it. The bow where needed is serviced or replaced too.

I tend to sell serviced Arioso from $150 up to around $250 mostly in 3/4 size depending on condition and new parts added. One of the nice things about an older secondhand instrument is the tone woods have had time to season a few more years and be played in a bit more – they actually sound better than new! (have a listen to a new and secondhand Montanari instrument sound comparison )

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial relationship with SFS

Buying a violin on facebook or gumtree? Some tips…

Chances are if you’re reading this then you are in the market for a secondhand violin maybe on facebook or gumtree and why not a secondhand violin can be better than new . While I hope you’ll come and checkout what I have on offer ( and why you might buy a preloved violin from me), here is a dozen or so tips if your going to get one yourself on gumtree or facebook!

Chances are you’ll do OK, most people are pretty straight-up and honest about what they have, but they don’t actually know themselves and there is the odd bit of firewood out there masquerading as a violin. So here is my dozen or so tips on what to look out for

1. Bow – does it have more hair than me – these guys wear out. does it have the reverse curve

2. Case – scruffy is OK, structurally unsound..not Ok.

3. Open seams – fixable..but probably not by you

4. Body cracks – likely needs opening up…an expensive fix and probably not worth it

5. Endpin cracks – might be superficial…might not

6. peg action and cracks – sticky or sloppy pegs, eliptical pegs, cracks in the peg box

7. Bridge – bent? at the wrong height, badly fitted

8. Action – strings low enough to be easy to play – but not buzzing

9. Chips – cosmetic usually – but can lead to splitting down the track…get them seen too!

10. Strings – only last a year, still work after than but might be fuzzy, nt hold a note and sound not very good

11. Brand – google the brand (inside the f hole) give you an idea of if its reputable

12. Price when new. How much do you need to spend well google it. I recon about $300 + $100 per year of playing I recon is about right.

If you can have play it, and bring along another similar violin for comparison of sound (acoustics can change the sound dramatically) that will help too.

Finally don’t be afraid to ask the seller about the provenance, that is where they got it and how long they have had it . They might be embarrassed to say its third hand (but shouldn’t be), if it hasn’t seen the inside of a violin shop in a while though make sure to give it some love.

Here’s a one take video version of the above, if you have 5min or so of your life to lose. Its not fancey but you might find it helpful.

Where is my violin made?

Once upon a time all violins were made in Europe and ideally Italy, then France, then Germany then the UK etc… These days they are made all over the world, but a European instrument still commands a higher price.

Its partly because of the way they are built (by hand), varnished (multiple layers of hand applied lacquer) but also because of the reputation of being the birth place of these instruments. The timber was sourced from slow growing European forest and much prized for their tonal qualities

Now a days most instruments are made in China and while the early instruments of the 1970’s were quite ordinary, now a days there are some fabulous violin makers in China who can command a premium on their work too.

One area where China really excels is in the substrantially lower cost of labour, and given violins are a labour intensive process they can really compete on cost.

two violins europe or chances which is which

So today savvy European western violin makers have cottoned on to this and can out source parts of the violin making, or even all of it, to China and still call their instrument European (see Sander Violin review…made in Germany?). They can do this by shopping their European timbers to China, having them roughed out, (or even finished under supervision of a European maker), before being hand finished by in Europe and then lacquered. Does it matter?…I guess that is in the eye of the buyer. Most reputable violin makers will tell you where the wood is from and where and who did the work on the instruments. You often see a sliding scale in the cost of the violin to reflect this.

So most beginner instruments today are made in China, the better ones will be finished with a traditional lacquer, but the cheap ones will use a spray on “Nitro” finish. It quicker and keeps the cost down. Check out mine here, I have selected these for their sound. It also a more robust finish for beginner instruments too.